Can almost imagine hunter gatherers slowly building sites like this that they return to periodically. Eventually they don't leave maybe? or maybe leave some people to take care of the farming and the rest go hunt. Then they get better and better at farming and they start doing less hunting. Then suddenly your religious site turned religious farming site turns into a little settlement. That is mostly my imagination but its really fun to ponder.
That's an interesting thought, and water resources among other variables would've defined the transition from nomadic to sedentary. I imagine your idea would apply to the slow decline of civilizations too — as resources dwindle or in the aftermath of disasters, a population slowly migrates, and settlements crumble.
I don't think you are far off. Right now the evidence points to a seasonal occupation as you described, which actually would be quite different from the earlier Natufian and even earlier Gravettian culture, where hunter gatherers lived permanently. Religion could've been a driving factor for settling down, though archaeologists are divided about it.
That's beyond me. Interesting thought though. Wouldn't it depend a lot on what they were eating? Maybe hunting also became more difficult over time? I'm just spitballing as I have no clue.
I recommend the Ancient Architects channel for regular vids on topics like this.
My sense from watching vids like this one and some reading, is that people lived at Gobelki tepe, Karahan tepe and other pre-pottery Neolithic sites in Anatolia and the Levant. The ring structures had roofs, and the site was pre-Agricultural in that the grains consumed were wild type. Full-fledged agriculture uses domesticated plants, which were not present. This does not preclude cultivation of wild plants for human consumption, but the abundance and variety of animal bones found shows that hunting was still very much a thing. Cultivation may have been one of a number of strategies for securing enough food to permit a sedentary lifestyle that permitted the construction and regular use of infrastructure like that seen at Gobekli tepe.
Yeah thats a good channel. Hunterers were valued in PPN societies much after Gobekli Tepe, if you see the scenes depicted at Catalhyouk which is from the PPN B period hunting is glorified. While I agree they weren't agriculturists, but they stocked and processed grains a bit more than predecessor cultures like Natufians. The transition from cereal processing to farming is a long drawn out process in the Near East, spanning over 12,000 years. So we can say Gobekli Tepe was closer to agriculture than Natufians or the people of Ohalo.
I agree. My belief is the onset of relatively stable climate conditions meant the population of people living in a sedentary fashion rose over time, providing cultural evolutionary pressure for the more efficient use of land achieved with agriculture.
Yeah, certainly people spent a lot of time there. Why build something and then never hang around? Sort of some hybrid between hunter/gatherer and farming culture. It had to be a very long transition right?
Yes, they *lived* there. I just noticed I forgot to say that. They just weren't farmers yet. Though Klaus was wrong that it was the product of nomadic hunter gathers who built this thing as a sort of a burning man event, but rather a structure built for everyday use by the inhabitants of the place, he was right that they were not agriculturalists.
Great to unravel a piece of our prehistory. These were our forefathers. And there is no doubt in my mind that Gobekli Tempe was the fore runner of Stone Henge that gave precise predictions of seasons and solstices for agricultural settlements. In other words, this is the yin-yang of the human mind as it struggles to predict the future and create a culture from agricultural surplus.
Thanks Geoffrey, glad you enjoyed it. I find it fascinating that the initial interpretation tried to pull away from the agricultural surplus theory for the evolution of civilizations, to religious gatherings as cement. As research progresses, I hope we can better understand how these structures may have influenced other civilizations.
Resonates with me that religious and semi-nomadic agricultural practices would be deeply interwoven. Comparative mythology guru Joseph Campbell highlighted “The way of the seeded Earth” as a critical evolutionary step in mankind’s mythology, late stone age to early bronze age. The “magic” in the level of development often consists of observations of heavenly bodies and natural rhythms coinciding with the seasons and annual cycle — using nature and the stars to keep a rudimentary calendar, a necessity for farming. And as far as I understand, that is exactly what is depicted at this site. It is a monument primarily depicting a zodiac-like set of mythological figures.
I’d wager these develop in tandem, but with the religious stuff leading the way. It could be that hunter gathers initiated the site as a religious meeting place, but then became more of a semi-settlement over generations as the population understood farming practices better with new understanding of calendar-keeping from the religious practices. One can imagine that an understanding emerged to sow seeds when x celestial event occurs…then come back to harvest when y celestial event occurs. And that over generations this catches on to yield larger and larger harvests, eventually making settlement viable.
Does food storage necessarily lead to agriculture? I’ve to review the theory as I’m not familiar with it, but there have been instances of humans storing food a long long time before the beginning of farming. One theory I like is plants domesticated us, rather than other way round. People may have found it convenient to settle around regions where wild grains and animal herds congregated
Can almost imagine hunter gatherers slowly building sites like this that they return to periodically. Eventually they don't leave maybe? or maybe leave some people to take care of the farming and the rest go hunt. Then they get better and better at farming and they start doing less hunting. Then suddenly your religious site turned religious farming site turns into a little settlement. That is mostly my imagination but its really fun to ponder.
That's an interesting thought, and water resources among other variables would've defined the transition from nomadic to sedentary. I imagine your idea would apply to the slow decline of civilizations too — as resources dwindle or in the aftermath of disasters, a population slowly migrates, and settlements crumble.
I don't think you are far off. Right now the evidence points to a seasonal occupation as you described, which actually would be quite different from the earlier Natufian and even earlier Gravettian culture, where hunter gatherers lived permanently. Religion could've been a driving factor for settling down, though archaeologists are divided about it.
But even becoming better at farming, full on agriculture was still less nutritious than hunter gathering with some small scale farming, right?
That's beyond me. Interesting thought though. Wouldn't it depend a lot on what they were eating? Maybe hunting also became more difficult over time? I'm just spitballing as I have no clue.
I recommend the Ancient Architects channel for regular vids on topics like this.
My sense from watching vids like this one and some reading, is that people lived at Gobelki tepe, Karahan tepe and other pre-pottery Neolithic sites in Anatolia and the Levant. The ring structures had roofs, and the site was pre-Agricultural in that the grains consumed were wild type. Full-fledged agriculture uses domesticated plants, which were not present. This does not preclude cultivation of wild plants for human consumption, but the abundance and variety of animal bones found shows that hunting was still very much a thing. Cultivation may have been one of a number of strategies for securing enough food to permit a sedentary lifestyle that permitted the construction and regular use of infrastructure like that seen at Gobekli tepe.
Yeah thats a good channel. Hunterers were valued in PPN societies much after Gobekli Tepe, if you see the scenes depicted at Catalhyouk which is from the PPN B period hunting is glorified. While I agree they weren't agriculturists, but they stocked and processed grains a bit more than predecessor cultures like Natufians. The transition from cereal processing to farming is a long drawn out process in the Near East, spanning over 12,000 years. So we can say Gobekli Tepe was closer to agriculture than Natufians or the people of Ohalo.
I agree. My belief is the onset of relatively stable climate conditions meant the population of people living in a sedentary fashion rose over time, providing cultural evolutionary pressure for the more efficient use of land achieved with agriculture.
https://mikealexander.substack.com/p/rise-of-civilization-part-i
Yeah, certainly people spent a lot of time there. Why build something and then never hang around? Sort of some hybrid between hunter/gatherer and farming culture. It had to be a very long transition right?
Yes, they *lived* there. I just noticed I forgot to say that. They just weren't farmers yet. Though Klaus was wrong that it was the product of nomadic hunter gathers who built this thing as a sort of a burning man event, but rather a structure built for everyday use by the inhabitants of the place, he was right that they were not agriculturalists.
Great to unravel a piece of our prehistory. These were our forefathers. And there is no doubt in my mind that Gobekli Tempe was the fore runner of Stone Henge that gave precise predictions of seasons and solstices for agricultural settlements. In other words, this is the yin-yang of the human mind as it struggles to predict the future and create a culture from agricultural surplus.
Well done. Great piece.
There's also another theory that Gobekli Tepe inspired the Ziggurats of Mesopotamia. Thanks Georffery, glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks Geoffrey, glad you enjoyed it. I find it fascinating that the initial interpretation tried to pull away from the agricultural surplus theory for the evolution of civilizations, to religious gatherings as cement. As research progresses, I hope we can better understand how these structures may have influenced other civilizations.
Fascinating info, thank you!
Resonates with me that religious and semi-nomadic agricultural practices would be deeply interwoven. Comparative mythology guru Joseph Campbell highlighted “The way of the seeded Earth” as a critical evolutionary step in mankind’s mythology, late stone age to early bronze age. The “magic” in the level of development often consists of observations of heavenly bodies and natural rhythms coinciding with the seasons and annual cycle — using nature and the stars to keep a rudimentary calendar, a necessity for farming. And as far as I understand, that is exactly what is depicted at this site. It is a monument primarily depicting a zodiac-like set of mythological figures.
I’d wager these develop in tandem, but with the religious stuff leading the way. It could be that hunter gathers initiated the site as a religious meeting place, but then became more of a semi-settlement over generations as the population understood farming practices better with new understanding of calendar-keeping from the religious practices. One can imagine that an understanding emerged to sow seeds when x celestial event occurs…then come back to harvest when y celestial event occurs. And that over generations this catches on to yield larger and larger harvests, eventually making settlement viable.
My $0.02 anyway, may be totally off base
Does this description fit with Andrea Matranga’s theory that the need for food storage led to agriculture, not the other way around?
Does food storage necessarily lead to agriculture? I’ve to review the theory as I’m not familiar with it, but there have been instances of humans storing food a long long time before the beginning of farming. One theory I like is plants domesticated us, rather than other way round. People may have found it convenient to settle around regions where wild grains and animal herds congregated
I need to read the paper more closely, but it is fascinating:
www.andreamatranga.net/uploads/1/5/0/6/15065248/theantandthegrasshopper2022.pdf